• Two and a half years later….

    Posted on September 6th, 2011 by and currently 17 commenting.


    This post if from our very own Brandy Amidon. Brandy and I are crazy, big advocates of the NO TIMESHEET MOVEMENT and we are always happy to talk about our decision to go timesheet-less.

    From Brandy:

    In January of 2009, Brains on Fire abolished time sheets.

    Two and a half years later, the grass is…still most definitely…greener on the other side.

    When I first started researching professional firms who had eliminated time sheets, I did what any good little accountant would do…I did my homework. I scoured the internet for companies who had made the transition. I thought I needed their insights…needed an example of a success story before I believed it could work. I called every company that had ever mentioned eliminating timesheets.

    No one would call me back.

    So in true Brains On Fire fashion, we did our own homework. We realized business life without timesheets could work…made it work…told everyone that would listen it worked….and then got back to work. Oh, and it’s still working.

    And it’s spreading.

    We aren’t the only ones out their brave enough to change how we do business. Lawyers, design firms, and accounting firms are jumping on the same wagon. That’s why Ron Baker, the guru behind trashing timesheets, is coming to Greenville, SC in October for a ‘Firm of the Future’ symposium.

    Click here for more info.

    When we first blogged about our experience years ago, our comment section blew up.

    So if you have a question now about life without timesheets, ask away. We’ll share our experiences.

    Or better yet, come to the symposium and bond with other firms’ eager to see hourly billing become a thing of the past.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jasonblumer Jason M Blumer

    Woot. Woot.  I’m going!!  Can’t wait to see others there.

  • Sarah

    I’d love to go timesheet-less- but our fees are based on the value of our time- and we use those timesheets to get data so we’re estimating accurately. How do you estimate now? By value? 

  • Bobby McDonald

    Love the no time sheets move! On the client side how do you manage expectations/time spent on an account? 

    Is there an internal or external minimum number of hours for each account or did you guys just say screw it, we’ll do the job well and if we do, you won’t fire us?

  • http://itsshala.com/ itsShala

    I would like insight into that as well. What is used to assist in estimating?

  • Ron Baker

    Thanks, Brandy. I’m looking forward to returning to Greenville to spread the word. I’d love to answer Bobby, Sarah, and Shala’s questions. Hopefully, they can attend. Or check out http://www.verasage.com for more information on getting rid of timesheets and the billable hour.

    Regards,
    Ron Baker, Founder
    VeraSage Institute
    http://www.verasage.com
    Twitter @ronaldbaker:disqus 

  • Brandy

    Hi Bobby,
    We outline all client expectations, cost and a timeline up front. So both sides are fully aware of what’s expected, when and how much. We place a dollar value on the project and then do everything needed to make it exceptional for our clients. Part of this process is taking the focus from the hours worked to the quality of the work. Thanks for the questions! Bring on anymore!!

  • Brandy Amidon

    We used to think that way, but ponder this…why are you billing on the ‘value of your time’? Why aren’t you billing on the value of ‘you’? If you come up with an amazing idea for your client in 15 mins….do you charge 15 mins of a billable hour? Or do you charge for the value of your idea and how you can deliver results on that idea?

    So yes, we estimate by value. It’s hard at first. You use your experience, what you think it’s worth, what your client thinks it’s worth and you find a common ground. Then because everything is done upfront, you and your client are happy with the dollar figure placed on whatever you have agreed to do for them.

  • Kevin McCoy

    So glad to hear it is working. Looking forward to meeting you and seeing Ron in person. Could you link to the blog post you referred to (or did I miss it)? I’d like to read that one as well.

  • Brandy Amidon

    Look forward to meeting you as well Kevin! See below for link to previous blog posts.
    http://www.brainsonfire.com/blog/index.php/2009/03/13/follow-up-to-abolishment-of-time-sheets/

  • http://www.deepsky.co W. Michael Hsu

    So bummed that I won’t be there! But I already know this is going to be a blast because Ron is going to make all of your heads hurt when he is done.

  • Mlongacre

    I’ve started value billing but I wonder how you keep track of where you are on a project without a timesheet, and how you evaluate productivity??

  • Tanyathompson14 5

    Awesome. Beat Buy did it, ROWE is results only work environment. If worked great in my Dept at RBC Insurance. It gives everyone control over their life & choices…no watched clocks or waste.

  • Brandy Amidon

    Great ?. You evaluate productivity by the simple idea ‘did you deliver what you said you would when you said you’d do it’. We have client deadlines that are most important. Then we have internal deadlines that we use to keep us on track. If we miss our internal deadline that’s the first indicator something is wrong with the project. Hope that answers your question!

  • http://www.facebook.com/jasonblumer Jason M Blumer

    Sarah, moving away from timesheets is hard at first (like Brandy said).  But there is such strategy in moving away from restrictive timesheets.  They kill creativity, and I promise, you are leaving cash on the table by billing by time.  There is a deep answer as to why (you’ll get that at this Symposium).

    If you triple your prices, then you’ll find out you don’t need time as an internal metric.  I’m serious… you probably need to raise your prices.  We consult with a lot of creative customers and we usually find that they are tracking internal metrics simply because they are cutting their margins to close.  Tracking internal metrics becomes useless when you are the higher priced professional.  And you are the highest priced professional because you deliver huge amounts of value to your customers.

    It’s so much fun!

  • http://www.facebook.com/jasonblumer Jason M Blumer

    Another strategy to proper pricing is implementing what I call a M.A.P.  That is a Minimum Access Price.  (Brandy, I believe BOF does this too?).  This means you know you won’t do ANY type of work unless you are getting at least your minimum price.

    This strategy weeds out all kinds of freakin’ losers.  You know, the kind that suck the life out of you and then complain about the $2,500 invoice you just sent them.  Crap on that.

    Get BIG fees (because you deliver sick value) and then just serve the crap out of your customers!

    So awesome.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jasonblumer Jason M Blumer

    Can’t wait to see you Kevin!

  • http://www.facebook.com/jasonblumer Jason M Blumer

    Michael, you know the Ron Baker headache like no one else.  Mail us some Alleve.  We’ll miss you dude.